My son is 12 and plays at the peewee level in MN. This year is the first year that there have been 2 goalies on our team.
My son was having a bad game about a month ago and got pulled. We understood. Then we went to a tournament and played some very tough teams who were ranked in the top 20 in our state. My son played the first game, got pulled after the first period. His coach said it wasn't because he wasn't doing well, but because he needed to fire up his offense.
The other goalie finished that game & played the next game. My son played 1.5 periods of the 3rd game and got pulled again and the other goalie played the 4th game.
I'm not writing this because I don't think my son is getting a fair shake. He is a good goalie (not great) but since getting pulled so much, his confidence is shot. He is letting in goals that he would normally stop in his sleep.
This past weekend we played in another tournament. Just the opposite happened. My son played almost the entire tournament while the other goalie got pulled and sat. Now I see this same confidence problem happening with him.
If it has a negative effect on the player, it is really right to pull them at this level? Or if they need to be pulled, should there be some discussion after to make sure this lack of confidance doesn't happen????
Posts: 4 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: December 28, 2007
Perhaps the toughest aspect of playing goalie is the mental part, especially dealing with "bad" goals/games, being pulled, having to sit, etc. I know at the older ages, one of the factors coaches/scouts look at is how well a goalie bounces back after such things, so learning to cope with this aspect is important.
Some things from my experience with my son:
* It's critical that they understand that these types of things happen to best of goalies. My son's idol when he was young was Patrick Roy, so I made a point of pointing out that Roy's gaa was 2+ per game, therefore he shouldn't be mad and lose focus after allowing one goal. I also printed out an article that talked about Roy getting pulled - again, just to prove that it happens.
* Getting pulled isn't always a reflection of a goalie playing bad. As your coach stated, sometimes they do so to get the team's attention.
* Be a good goalie partner. If you get pulled, don't sit on the bench & pout. Cheer and support your team and goalie partner.
* A goalie needs to be accountable and take responsibility for his play. They know if they played bad, so don't allow them to make excuses ("it was the Defense's fault"), and help them learn from what happened. So much about playing goal is anticipation, save selection, understanding the game; therefore, each goal they allow is an opportunity to learn - what were the circumstances (2 on 1?, etc)? what could he have done differently? Overtime, a resovoir of experience can pay off as the begin to recgonize a scenario and make the right decsion. Key thing here is to allow them to talk about what they could have done better...having a parent tell them usually backfires. Obviously, how the parent handles this is key. Preaching, dictating, angry discussions don't work. I also found that I had to allow my son some down time after the game before he was ready to talk about the game without the emotions of the game getting in the way.
* Understand that goals happen. Sometimes, no matter how well a goalie plays the shot, talented shooters are going to score. have to give credit to the shooter for a good shot.
* This is alos an age where pre-game prep routines start taking shape. The more consistent one is with pre-game prep (stretching, mental focus, etc.) the more consistent his play will become. Talk with him about the importance of figuring out what works for him and then doing it every game (even if he know he's not starting).
I guess after all that I really didn't answer your initial question.
"okay" depends on the coach's perspective, and I've experienced wide variations from coach to coach. It's "okay" when the coach deems that the team would benefit. Sometimes it's not even a case of the goalie playing bad, but changing the goalie does have a way of getting a team's attention at times.
Much depends on the coach's experience with a specific goalie - does the goalie have a history of tightening up after a goal or two and playing better? or does a bad goal equal open the floodgates? Coaches often watch the body language of a goalie after a goal - do they look defeated or can they see even more determination? Has the goalie been playing well recently or is this game just another poor outing?
Most important thing a coach needs to do tho, is communicate his reasoning to the goalie so they know why it happened.
Given that this is at the Peewee level, adjusting to this type of "accountability" (getting pulled either as a consequence of play or as a wake-up call to the team) is critical to the development of a goalie (or any player for that matter).
I'd bet that even a skater who is not playing as the coach has asked for is probably sitting a period on this team. However, a goalie change is more noticable, so often a goalie often feels singled out for attention.
There is another thing in play here that you (and the other goalie parent) need to understand. That is that the backup needs to be mentally (and physically) ready to enter the game at any time. This can be looked at as the half-full side of the situation. Your son may be needed to give the team a spark or pick up for a net-mate that is having an off day.
I'll give kudos to the coach for making a change at the end of a period instead of immediately following a goal. Goalies feel bad enough getting pulled. When your last save isn't successful, a young goalie will often keep replaying the goal over and over in his/her mind.
Been there, done that. Went somewhere else and did it again.
Red Wings Guy - just so I'm not misunderstood, I don't have a problem with pulling each goalie if the need arises during a game. In fact, I believe it to be an invaluable lesson for not only the goalie, but the skaters as well.
The problem I do have is the mind games being played by making them sit 1 & 2 games after being pulled. I would think that to improve their skills, a coach would want to force them back into the net. Make them understand that just because they had an off day, doesn't mean they don't deserve to be on the team. Show that the coach & team still have confidence in them. We have been on a team with 2 goalies a couple other times and this seemed to be the way in the past. I've noticed that it was more beneficial to put the goalie back in the hot seat, rather than let them sit on the bench and think about it even longer. Kind of the "when you fall off the horse, get right back on" theory.
Just wondering, since this tactic has seemed to hinder rather than help both goalies this year, if it's really the right move on the coaches part?
Posts: 4 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: December 28, 2007
Goalie A is scheduled to start/play games 1 and 3 of a tournament and Goalie B is scheduled to start/play games 2 and 4.
Goalie A gets pulled early in game 1 and is replaced by Goalie B for the remainder of game 1 and gets the game 2 start. Goalie B and team play well and Goalie B finishes game 2.
If Goalie A goes in for game 3 and gets pulled again early, I don't necessarily see a reason to let Goalie A start game 4, even though he hasn't had nearly the net time as Goalie B. The rationale here is that finishing out a loss shouldn't result in losing a start (with a 0-0 score).
A goalie friend (on another team) of my goalie daughter recently lost a start in such a situation, where her net mate had a bad first period in the 3rd game of a tournament (they had each played a whole game prior to this at the tournamen). My D's friend got to play periods 2 and 3 of a game that was long since lost (they were down 3 goals when she came in). The other goalie's parents pitched a hissy fit threatening to walk out for the rest of the season and the other goalie was rewarded with the start (and entirety of) game 4. My D's friend wondered what she had done wrong (she played a great 2nd and 3rd period) to deserve losing the start.
Now if after getting pulled in Game 1, Goalie A is denied a start in Game 3 (his originally scheduled game), the only reason I can see for this is that the coach is playing the hot goalie pattern, which should be spelled out in advance. Usually you don't do this during a season, even in a tournament at the Peewee age bracket with relatively evenly skilled goalies, as winning at this level shouldn't be the dominant concern. You need to develop 2 goalies during a season, so playing the "hot" goalie can backfire late in the season if the hot goalie gets hurt.
I hope I haven't confused things. Some of the "punishment" of being pulled is that you lose periods of play. But it shouldn't generally affect the starting patterns for subsequent games at this level of hockey. It may affect the total time on ice for a particular weekend, but over a longer period, things even out.
I'm sure I'm going to get flamed by some uber-competitive AAA parent who thinks the #1 goalie should play until further notice. Before that flame comes, please note that this equality of play philosophy comes from a goalie parent whose #1 goalie daughter has been more than happy to share time in net.
Been there, done that. Went somewhere else and did it again.
To play devil's advocate a bit, what does the pulled goalie learn if he/she is rewarded with the start the game after they were pulled? Where is the consequence of being pulled? What does it tell the other goalie who played well but has to sit - play poorly and I'll get more time?
Playing goalie is a tough proposition, and part of the process is dealing with sharing a single position. If pulled, the coach should really communicate why it was down and encourage the goalie to continue working hard, that they are still an important part of the team. Goalies need to adopt the mindset that they will work hard in practice and go out their next time and give it their best shot. Goalies need to understand this or they're playing the wrong position. "Mind games" are major part of the position as so much of playing goalie is mental toughness and being able deal with such things.
To me, it comes down to the expectations that the coach establishes at the beginning of the year. If coach states there is a true #1, then #2 shouldn't expect many starts. If coach says he's going with "the hot goalie", a goalie has to be prepared to sit a few games in a row if they are not the "hot goalie". If playing time was said to be on a set rotation, then a goalie should not lose their scheduled start because the other goalie was pulled.
I think you laid out the 3 typical goalie arrangements well. I just tend to feel for the good of an organization a fixed rotation is usually the best at younger age levels, such as the Peewee situation we have here, although I can buy the hot goalie in the league playoff at this level if it is explained up front.
And mental toughness development is vital at this age, so it is probably good to go with the hot goalie in a playoff at the end of a season in a competitive (i.e. travel) league, unless there is a back to back situation where there is a stamina question.
Goaltending is a mental thing. And as funny as it sounds, the old Terry Sawchuk saying "Half the game is mental, the other half is being mental" is probably true - and is especially true for us goalie parents.
Been there, done that. Went somewhere else and did it again.
lol
