Been following this topic and am a little disappointed that things have gotten a little too heated.

But getting back to the original subject, it is something I'd like to learn more about. I know USA Hockey makes Coaches and Refs certify each season giving them until a certain date to complete whatever they need to get done.

My question with regard to refs is what is their deadline for these things and when do they get their patch issued to them. If like with coaches (my understanding) they have until a point during the season to finish their training, paperwork, etc. how do you know if your ref is really up to date? Do patches only get issued after all paperwork is complete, or do they issue when you pay your fees and suspend you if fail to complete by x date during the season?

My point here is that it should be obvious to anyone whether a ref is properly certified. The patch should be worn only when certification is complete.

If a non-cert ref was sent to a game (I'm not saying that this actually happened), it would be a big problem with USA Hockey National, as it would affect insurance if someone were injured. It would be just like having a player who wasn't registered.

In the event of a game that counts towards nationals, a non-cert ref would disqualify the game and possibly someone's chance to play at Nationals too.

If our ref-in-charge could chime back in again and educate us on this process, I would be interested in knowing.

RedWingGuy, the answer to your question is you do not get your crest until you have completed and passed the written test, attended a coaching seminar and paid your money. The criteria change a bit for higher level refs but I know the rules for Level 1 and 2 as that is where my son is at. There is also a specific date by which you must complete all. I do not know the exact date for this year but I believe it is in the November/December timeframe. The clinic is in late August/early September that the boys attend here in Cincinnati.

I also know for a fact that Cincinnati does not have enough games for the teenagers who are certified so they would not use an uncertified ref.

I'm sure Sandy has been in contact with Ken Handley and he will look at the pairing to be sure it was an appropriate one. I know he cares greatly about keeping the officiating at as high a level as possible but he also needs to get the younger refs. experience at a more challenging level so they continue ref.

When my son starting ref (last year) and through this year, coaches and senior officials provided Ken feedback on how well my son was doing so Ken could keep him progressing. I know he looks at everything (positive and negative) to try to help the younger refs develop and become better.

We all have a bad ref situation we could complain about and do. What Sandy did was try to find the appropriate person to complain to so it would have an impact. I applaud her for that. Unfortunately, she added some opinion with her question and left herself wide open for others to voice an opinion back.

Sometimes good, sometimes not so good!

You register online with USA Hockey and pay

USA Hockey sends you a registration packet including the new rule book

You must successfully take the test for the intended level.

You successfully complete the off-ice instruction.

Once all of this is certified to USA Hockey you are issued your crest.

Last year's crest is good until either November 1 or November 30 (I can't remember but I think it is November 30). But after that date you are ineligible to ref.

While it seems easy to just check for the crest (the way the system is designed to work). two problems. Some officials are certified by more that one body (i.e. Ohio high school officials) and may "forget" to either change jerseys or switch crests. In our area if you get caught (either the 1st or 2nd time) without your crest you are suspended. Second (hopefully a rare occassion) what would stop a non-certified ref from being loaned a jersey.

Thanks for the quick responses folks. I've always wondered when the deadlines were. I'm sure Ken Handley is given a list in November of who has been issued a crest for the season and pares down his ref list accordingly.

I just wanted to know in the event that I see a ref with last years crest, when that would become a problem.

And I agree that mixing complaints about the quality of the ref's performance with a question about certification was not a very good idea.

Thanks again folks. Many of us here like to learn about these things and having knowledgable people in the discussion is a big benefit to all of us.

Wow! This is a first for me. Someone posts to this site a public rebuke of two Cincinnati refs (one of whom was a kid), the Cincinnati refs organizations (scheduling a non-certified ref), and the entire Cincinnati Squirt A team ("... the home team must have known" that the younger ref was not certified). A couple of replies offer a different perspective on things (I being one of them). The original post'er goes a bit "postal", and now everyone is apologizing.

I for one will not join this rush to apologize. Sandy is 100% correct: I do not know her personally. However, the tone of her last two post tell me everything I care to know. She is the parent that I addressed on my original post – the one who complains about every call the refs make (or don't make) that goes against her son's team, yet cheers, or turns a blind eye, to the bad calls that favor her son's team. She is the "parent" who is driving good refs out of the game.

Let's draw some analogies from her posts. First she was quick to publicly accuse the Cincy refs and the whole Cincy team of illegal behavior. Just like a screaming parent in the stands who complains about every call a refs misses that the other team "got away with" – even insignificant off-sides, that had no impact on the game.

Next, when I post a challenge to her stated intentions, she again she cries foul. Just like a screaming parent who complains when a ref makes a call that goes against her team. The pattern is repeated with Saroh's post. Actually, her reply to Saroh was even worse. Here she publicly accuses an 8/9 year old of "a retaliatory butt end to the neck from a kid that was pissed because he got outskated". As an adult she takes great umbrage when another adult dares to question her intentions, yet she feels that it is perfectly acceptable for an adult (at least her, that is) to publicly berate an 8/9 year old child. From her posts alone, I can picture her screaming at that young ref all during the game.

While I am on a roll, let me address another one of her comments. She states "Remember, we're talking Squirt A here. They're 9 years old! All but 3 of our kids were mites last year! NO checking! None! Zero! Its dangerous at this age and should not be tolerated." First of all, her son's team was playing another Squirt A team. Said team being made up of a majority of first year squirts. Therefore, most of that team played mites last year. So the point of bringing this to our attention was what ?. Secondly, hockey is a contact sport. It is dangerous at all ages. In fact, I believe it is more dangerous as they get older – that old testosterone thing.

She says she has been around hockey now for 4 years. How many posts has she made to this site following a game in which a player from the opposing team got hurt? As I said this is a contact sport – she must have witnessed other injuries. How many times has she made a post when another player on her son's team got hurt? How many times has she made a post to this site complaining about an egregious missed call – THAT HER TEAM GOT AWAY WITH? Again, bad calls go both ways. Yet, she asks us to believe that her sole intention in making her post was to make hockey safer for ALL kids. I'm not buying it.

Lastly, for the record I am in the Cincy organization. I am not a ref, and my sons are not refs. Further, my sons are Midgets, therefore I have no personal stake in the Squirt game in question. I just don't like hypocrites.

Just to update everyone, I get an updated list from my Referee-in-Chief twice a month between November and February showing me the registration status of all of the officials in the MidAm district. I save the MidAm copy and then I pare it down to my local officials so that I know who is complete and who is not. If an official does not have a current year crest as of November 30th they are not scheduled until they notify me that they have indeed gotten the current year crest. After November 30th, I do not use officials who are marked complete om my roster from MidAm until they contact me personally.

Ken, do you meqan incomplete on your Mid Am roster?

I looked at Sandy's profile and found her to be from Louisville. Not trying to get too personal here, well, yes I am....Louisville???? & you question Cincinnati's officiating????? Ouch...that hurts!!!!!!!!!! Didn't they pull the buckeye tournament from louisville because they lack decent officials? I know when they used to have it there that CINCINNATI sent a mimimum of 6-8 officials down there to help. My son has played games mite through bantam in Louisville and I have yet to see a decent official there. I am not going to go into how bad, just know that they are really bad. I have been to towns all over the midwest, northeast, southeast, Ontatrio, Quebec, and never have I seen it so bad as ol' Louisville.

Sandy, good luck down there....you'll need it.

No actually I mean "complete". Once they esceed the November 30th deadline and actually let their current crest expire, I do not use them until they make the effort to contact me personally to let me know that they are complete. With the way that we run things in Cincinnati now, there is no reason at all that any one just lets their certification expire. I could look at the updated roster and know that I can use them (and I do look at the roster), It is just a principle thing that I do since they let their certification expire I make them contact me just like the new officials.