I know nothing more than what I posted. I said I did not see anything. As in I did not see any laser of any kind. You say you are not accusing or implying anything but you are questioning my integrity. You do not know me. Dont impliy that I know more than I am saying.

No one is questioning anyone's integrity. It just seemed unusual that someone from Toledo who saw the game would not have known more about something this memorable. Here's a verbatim quote from the complaint (this is an unproven allegation at this stage and remember innocent until proven guilty)"

"I also wanted to call your attention to something that happened during the last game of the tournament that disturbed me deeply. First, let me say that I am the mother of the Columbus Flames goalie who played during the last game- Columbus Flames vs. Toledo Storm. During the first two periods, there was a Toledo Storm mother who was shining a laser pointer in my son's eyes. My son, Justin is twelve years old, and something was blinding him, but he didn't know what it was. He thought maybe it was a strobe light or a stadium light that was supposed to be there. At any rate, he couldn't identify it, so he continued to play. Towards the end of the second period, the referee noticed the pinpoint of a laser on Justin's shirt. He immediately stopped the game and addressed the Toledo Storm fans and warned them that if it did not stop, the parents responsible would be asked to leave the game. I am thankful that the referee was so alert and stopped the game for this. After the game, we overheard discussions between the Toledo Storm parents. It seemed that other parents knew exactly which parent was responsible."

quote:

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(this is an unproven allegation at this stage and remember innocent until proven guilty)"

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Exactlly. *IF* this would be found to be true shame on whoever would have done it. But IF not is this is just sour grapes? I have no idea. I am not a judge or jury. But one thing is for sure I hope they get to the bottom of it either way.

Unfortunately this is the problem with a forum such as this if not used resposiblly. i did not want to respond on this topic until the league had completed it's investigation but I feel as though this needs to be addressed immediately. As the manager of the Storm team in question and being on the bench during the game here are the FACTS that I have.

#1 This was a clean, hard fought, well refereed game between to teams.

#2 During the second period the referee stopped the game and addressed our fans. As to the content of the conversation I can not be completely accurate as he had his back to our bench as he talked to the crowd. The head coach and myself asked him for a clarification as what was said to our fans. He said some one shined a laser pointer onto the ice when our player scored. If he saw it again he was going to stop the game until a culprit was caught. The game was completed both teams and coaches cordially shook hands after the game and commended each other for the great game.

As far as this taking place the entire game, I have serious questions about that. It happened in the second period, it was addressed by the referee and it was not addressed again. A laser pointer light is something that is certainly recognizable to people in a crowd. I find it hard to believe that he (the goalie) was the only one that saw it. If it would have been a problem throughout the whole game someone, a player, a coach, a referee, a fan , a rink manager would have seen it.

The league is doing an investigation into the matter and I am not sure where it will go from there.

As to walodnoc claim as to having pride in what we did. I can honestly say on behalf of our entire organization we would not have tolerated this type of behavior if it did indeed occur thoughout the entire game and knew about it. However I have a great deal of pride in our teams performance throughout the weekend. Please do not judge our team based hearsay and rumor of what a fan in the crowd did.

Again, if we would have been made aware of this happening we as coaches would have also put a stop to it. Let's let the league do their job and get to the bottom of this and quit dragging people through the mud.

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Originally posted by hockeydad2004:
Again, if we would have been made aware of this happening we as coaches would have also put a stop to it. Let's let the league do their job and get to the bottom of this and quit dragging people through the mud.

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Very well put. I wish I could have said it this well myself.

hockeydad2004,

Thanks for the addtional information. I think this forum is doing exactly what it should. I don't see where anyone is being dragged through the mud. The Commish stated his point and the poster indicated he wasn't calling him out directly, but thought someone knew more than they were saying--unless the ref has it all wrong and there was no laser at all. (Which almost certainly has to be true.) Nobody said John Smith was shining a laser in the goalie's eyes. (John Smith is entirely a fictional name and is not intended to represent any actual John Smith, living or now deceased, associated with the Toledo Association, living in Lucas or any of the surrounding counties in Northwest Ohio or within 250 miles of the rink where this game was played--I think that should be sufficient for now.)

Whether it was the whole game up until then or one time; whether it was one person not affiliated with the program or the team handed the laser pointers out to everyone before leaving the hotel it is a forum such as this that allows us to share information where folks such as yourself with either supporting information or contrary information can let us know what is going on. There is no way this story wasn't making its rounds through rinks in the BTHL. Without the ability to share information who knows how far this could have gotten blown out of proportion. Even if this was only one time, I still think this is unbelievably outside the lines, but so do all reasonable people including those associated with the Toledo program as evidenced by the posts from the Commish and yourself. You have a great program and I am sure this will be addressed not only by the BTHL but by your association as well.

You will note that I conditioned all my posts with the idea that if this was true . . . There is no way this story doesn't get around. Now we have more information. Hopefully when what ever investigation is to occur is finalized, the results of that will also be posted here with the punishment, if any is deemed to be warranted, that was handed out by both the BTHL and the Toledo association.

This was supposed to be a post for congratulating teams, not an argument between two teams. Again congrats to the Bloomington Blades Squirt team for winning the BTHL league tournement.

No disrespect intended to the Bloomington kids and especially the Toledo kids who played hard and did not do anything wrong. This thread admittedly went in a different direction than initially intended, but the silver lining is that alot more eyes ended up seeing the congrats posts than otherwise may have been the case. This is not bickering between two teams as I have no dog in that fight. The issue is of concern to everyone in the league. Someone has raised a serious charge that a parent did something that could cause serious eye damage (I've heard that it can, but I've not personally researched it) to an opposing player on the ice.

CBJ, your last post said was I was thinking, and I'm glad someone other than myself said it.

Here are my final thoughts. This league belongs to everyone who particpates and we appoint the Board to run it for us. Everyone in the league and not just the Board has an interest in this. We have an interest in seeing that Toledo's good name is cleared if the evidence does not support the charge, and we have an interest in the protection of our kids and the integrity of the league if the evidence supports the charge. I disagree that we should sit back and see what the Board or other investigations come up with. I think everyone in the league has the right to know the Toledo response to the serious allegations and the results of its internal investigation which will go to the Board. The members can then air their comments to the Board before it renders its final decision. That's democracy. This forum is a good, albeit indirect, method to accomplish airing of member opinion to the Board.

I take the Team Manager's comments at face value for what he saw and knew at the time. I would only slightly disagree that it would be obvious to someone other than the victim if someone was doing it. No one would ever expect or anticipate something like this, and if you're heavily concentrating on watching the game, especially if you're on the bench, you're not necessarily going to pick up everything that goes on in the stands unless someone makes a verbal spectacle of themselves.

This much is known thus far: the referee stopped the game and addressed the Toledo parents on the subject of a laser pointer; the identity of the perpetrator, if any, is a mystery; the victim states that it was not just a single instance (which is irrelevant, if it happened once it's one time too many); the victim's parent has accused a Toledo mother of doing it; the victim's parent says she witnessed post-game conversation among Toledo parents suggesting that the identity of the perpetrator was known.

If there's one certainty in life it's that hockey parents talk among themselves about controversies occuring during a game. Since the Team Manager and Commish both do not condone anything like this and want the perpetrator, if any, identified and punished or Toledo's good name cleared depending on what all the facts show, I'm sure that they have talked with other Toledo parents and will share with us what other Toledo parents saw and heard during and immediately after the game. My preference is that this is not true and our kids are safe at games. I look forward to hearing what the Toledo parents have to say in response to the specific allegations that have been made so I can voice my opinion to the Board accordingly.