Wanted to throw out some stats, see people's perspectives, etc, etc...so here goes...

over 30% of the teams in the BTHL this year ended up with either 3 losses or less\3 wins or less...teams i would argue where either in over their heads or not really challenged....

so 1 in 3 teams didnt end up in a very competitive division - does this indicate the placement tourney isnt working so well??

feedback i have heard from other coaches on how to possibly improve the system include:

* have an early September Saturday tourney (4 mini games) and then "group teams"...then hold a late September Saturday tourney (4 more mini games)...this way teams are reviewed twice...the groupings after the 1st tourney can be corroborated by games played in the 2nd tourney...and often teams dont have much practice time under their belts thru early Sept and may not "show" to their true capabilities..


another idea is when you have 20+ teams in a division, like Bantam or Pee Wee this year, go with an AA, A1, A2 and A3 instead of two A divisions...
look at the Bantams, had the top 3 teams from Bantam A BlueGrass been paired with the top 3 teams from Bantam A Hoosier you would have had a very equal and competitive division...and likewise the bottom 3 teams from Hoosier and bottom 3 from BlueGrass could have been grouped together...

others thoughts on whether you think the goal of the placement tournament has worked, and if not what modifications could be implemented to achieve more equally competitive divisions??

I've not been a big proponent of the pre-seaon tournamnet but it seems to have improved the overall team placement:

1) There is not a single undefeated team.
2) Only one team did not get a single point.

Note that the team without a point was in the lowest division so the fact is that they were placed properly. That's an improvement and in my mind not too bad. It's pretty easy to look at final results and say this grouping or that grouping would have been better.

Cleveland spends the first 6 weeks of the season playing "pre-season" games and if you scan through their standings the results are arguably no better (or maybe even worse!) than the BTHL.

Someone has to plan and organize these events and so far it's all fallen on the Cincinnati organization. At some point I think you have to accept that there is no "perfect" system and keep in mind there is a point of diminishing returns.

Well put Len I think the Buckeye League is Doing a great Job with what we have. Yes some teams did when a few games 6 goals but no one went 20-0-0 either that is improvement the BTHL will continue to tweak the system and continue to grow. When you have 2 divisions I think you should play some crossover games between the other divisions. I am not sure how this would work. Just a thought.

as a parent of a bantam division winner i think this is as equal as the league has ever been. the last place hoosier division team (bloomington)could beat any team in the tourney on a given day.they lost league games because some kids had high school game commitments or they would have seeded higher. the other division last place(cincy) won their first game and almost won their second to get to the semi finals. that hasnt happened in the past

In my opinion, I think there should be a little more latitude with teams wanting to be moved. For instance if a team does not have players at the pre-season tourney, or wants to be challenged more and asks to move up they should be allowed. As well, a second picked team from an organization should be considered to move down if requesting it (for instance Cincy peewee this season).

An alternative would be to "re-seed" as necessary for the year end tournament. If one team has been dominant or severely struggled, possibly allow them to play up (or down).

These are just some thoughts. I would like to say however that this league is well run and I am happy to be a part of it.

The real question is do we need to do the placement tourney. At the peewee division this year the old method of large assoc. and first and second picked teams would have gotten the same results as the tourney did. The biggest disappointment in our division was the placement of teams. Geography wise the teams were placed as if a dart board was used. All the time and money spent (placement tourney) and apparently no one even looked at a map.
Instead of rushing through and giving teams one or two days to appeal and feeling the need to post the divisions,instead take your time listen to teams concerns and make better thought of decisions. Considering the season last the better part of six months what's another week going to hurt.

I know for a fact that the guys who sort through the data spent 2 looong days and nights poring over the data and trying to make the tournament work.
If anyone would like to help this year, I'm sure you can volunteer through the Buckeye website. ...
...I'm guessing none of you will..

Relax hockeydad, the original question was does the touney work not who do we blame for any problems. As I stated before we could have gotten the same results using the old assoc. and first team picked rules of yesteryear. This would have saved time,money,and apparently headaches from going over data. My only complaint as stated before was the geographic placement of teams. Sure to gosh it doesn't take two looong days to figure out that butler co. and springboro ARE further North than NKy.