I checked out the Cleveland Suburban League and noticed they have the same problem as we do; the top teams win most of their games and the bottom teams lose most of theirs. (Imagine that)

Bantam AA - Youngstown (12-3) Columbus (2-14)
Bantam A1 - CSC (12-2) Garfield (2-11)
Bantam A2 - Geauga (12-1) Parma (0-16)
Bantam A3 - Fremont (13-1) Canton (0-13)
Bantam B - Winterhurst (13-2) Mentor (1-12)

I'd go on with the rest of the age groups but if you check it out you'll see it's more of the same. And if you check out game scores you'll see they have their share of blow-outs. Contrary to what you might think all the games are not 2-1 nail biters.

A pre-season tournament sounds ideal but the fact is when you really dig into it there are very few teams misplaced under the current system. The "B" teams with losing records can go no lower, we don't have enough teams to form a "C" or "B2" or "A3" or whatever you want to call it. With the adjustments made at the end of last season you'll find that most of the "AA" teams with losing records are there because that's where they choose to play.

Ask Cincinnati how much work is involved in a 100-team tournament. Is that worth the change in placement of just a few teams? The logistics involved with our league are substantially different than CSHL. Other problems have already been mentioned; some teams aren't formed until late October, a lot of teams are missing players until football and soccer seasons are over, some teams improve substantially over the course of a season, etc.

My opinion is that you should enjoy the season for what it is and remember that league games are only part of the whole experience. If your team is substantially misplaced you can attempt to adjust accordingly with your non-league and tournament schedule.

The preseason tournament idea has been brought up as long as I can remember but the BTHL continually shuts it down. There is no perfect answer but there are a lot of options to try other than changing the number of 1st or second year players from year to year. Age has nothing to do with it, the brackets should be based on skill. Example the Buter County AA Bantam team could be playing A under BTHL rules. Only a smart choice by their coach resulted in them playing AA, where they finished in first place. Last year's Dayton Peewee A all first year team beat the Peewee AA team at each meeting. Last Season's Troy Peewee B team beat many of the Peewee A teams. This year the Troy Bantam A team, which didn't win a game, would most likely finish at the bottom of the Bantam B division. As Len suggested if your team is substanially misplaced you can make up for it in non-league and tournament games. If that is the case according to BTHL rules the board can reclassify teams for the tournament to place them where they would be most competitive. The regular season is over and the division winners have been decided. If those tournament rules exist why are the Sylvania Bantam AA's not placed in the A division? Why are the Troy Bantams playing in the A divison? Maybe it is not to late to place the "substanially misplaced" peewee and squirt teams where they belong for the tournament.

If we are going to make it up in Non-league games and tournament play then please tell me way join BTHL??????

I feel most do this in hope of equal compitition and easy scheduling. Only one of two is happening. I do not clam to know the answer but I know I have said for years my son's teams best competition year in and year out have been in tournaments other then the BTHL tournament. I have asked way not take the team to 6-8 tournament and play in no league?

By everyones complaints here I see no advantage to joining any league.

Part of the process is to assess each team's relative strength and not entirely rely on the chart for placement.

The medium size organizations have a great deal of flexibility. Although some teams are in difficult situation (either too good for the league options or too poor for the league options)careful placement in most cases should allow a competitive year.

Louisville (i believe to be your son's organization) provides an excellent example:

Midget 18 A (18-1-1) is a very young team but probably should have played the AA class. This would have been a tough team to place. Their history probably would dictate choice.

Bantam A which has 11 2nd year players may have had a greater challenge in AA finishing at 21-3. Probably in wrong division but Buckeye had the AA option.

Bantam B (1st years) had all it could handle in B.at 6-9-1 (4th of 5) No lower division available.

PeeWee AA seemed well situationed for competitive level at 10-12-2.(4th of 7)

PeeWee B also seemed well situated by competitive level at 13-6-1.(3rd of 6) (Great difference from B to A at the PeeWee level)

Squirt AA may have beeen slightly overmatched at 6-13-1 (5th of 6 )but may have not been challenged in A. Tough call here but probably best choice.

Organizationally, it looks like Buckeye had appropriate divisions for all teams (except maybe Midget). The new structure in Buckeye (and the eveloving face of Buckeye) requires greater care in an organizations' evaluation of talent and team placement.

p.s. if your son's team is the Midget team - they look really good and may be better off with your suggestion. All other teams have options in Buckeye.

No my son is not on the Midget Team. He is on the Pee Wee B team.

I can almost say as to the Midget and Bantam team that it was about time the plate was slanted towards a Med Org. Yet I do not see Louisville 250 players as Medium. No I don't like playing to just win I believe kids gain by being challanged ever game every shift. The Pee Wee B level did not have that there is a big difference between the top three and bottom three teams. Louisville just was the lower of the top three teams. I feel after 4 years that teams would be better off playing who they want and going to more tournaments.

We have gone up north for four years now and have gained more there then anywhere.

An interesting development in Bantam AA. My son plays for Indy Blast. They did very well against the Indy Checkers with 4 wins and 1 loss, but got shut down with 3 ties and 2 losses to Butler County.

As a contrast, though our kids couldn't figure out Butler County, the Indy Checkers seemed to have their number pretty well, though they finshed third in the regular season.

In the tournament Cincinnati, who had a weak league record, lost in the first round in a shootout and in the consolation bracket with a 17-18 player shootout.

I think with the exception of Sylvania, the Bantam AA bracket was very competitive and to list Cincinnati's record as a bottom feeder does not do justice to that program. They were a very competitive team that lost many close games.

Louisville A and Lexington A would have been strong competition to the AA group and Sylvania AA probably would have been mid-level competitive at A.

Bottom line is that in a double-elimination tournament, the Indy Checkers may very well have prevailed as Buckeye Cup Champs. This Arctic Blast parent is glad we didn't run into Cincinnati or the Fort Wayne Komets (also shootout losers).

So, I vote for a double elimination tournament instead of a consolation bracket. Kudos to the BC Blackhawks, but if we couldn't beat them, maybe the Indy Checkers could have. At least that way, we'd have the Buckeye Cup up here in Indy to enjoy. LOL!

Again the greatest difficulty is team placement.

Your son's team had a choice to play PeeWeeA. That probably would have challenged them every game every shift.(From having seen all of the PeeWee A teams and probably half of the PeeWeeB teams there is a great difference in those divisions).

Findlay's PeeWee team had a similar problem last year they struggled to win a PeeWee A game (as Findlay's second PeeWee team). This year the core of that team added 3 players who played on last years LCAHL PeeWee AA team and replaced 4-5 92 players with 4-5 94 players and have gone 22-2 in the league (both losses were the result of incredible goaltending). Did they expect to be that good - probably not (they started the year at 2-3 and are now 37-5-1). But they have bolstered their non league schedule as a result. They have played about 11 games against LCAHL teams (10-0-1) and played 7 games against Buckeye PeeWee AA teams (5-2).

In hindsight maybe they should have been up a level. From history and experience and Buckye's recognition of medium size organizations they played A. (Similarly the second Findlay PeeWee team played B and was successful and the Squirt team played A and was successful). Over all the rule change seems to be of value to the member organizations. But it will take stong analysis each year from each team to properly place themselves in the available slots Buckeye offers. (In Findlay it is further complicated because we also have the physical ability to play in the LCAHL).

I do not disagree with you at all. It is a choice of not knowing at the first of the year. I see little to no advantage of joining a league at all. We have one choice Buckeye no others are even close. I see the advantage to schedule games with like teams and play in more tournaments to allow the kids the most even games and that would not be 100% either. BTHL is doing the best they can yet teams are leaving the program.