Hello new poster here with some questions of advanced hockey moving from Mites to Squirts

My son has been playing with a hockey Association in Arkansas that has small numbers the last 3 years. I am in graduate school at the Univ of Ark. As a mini-Mite he was asked to play up and this year (second yr Mite) he was asked to play up because the team qualified to play at the A1 level in the Missouri Hockey League and needed more players (Most games against St. Louis teams which have B2 B1 A2 A1 and AA going from least skilled to most skilled). We will most likely be moving for me to get a job and as such looking for another hockey experience not only for him but my little girl she's a 2001. My questions are 1) how to objectively assess what level my son should be playing at. What methods of camps, tryouts, etc? As he says that he would like to play travel hockey because essentially that is what he has been playing this year. 2) how do I go about finding the proper hockey experience for my kids?

Welcome aboard Dadof98and01.

It sounds like you are set for this season and are thinking forward to next year when you take a job in a place with more choices. You are indeed wise to be asking now.

Having been through 2 relocations (Detroit to Milwaukee and Milwaukee to Knoxville) through the years with my daughter (a '92 goalie), let me tell you a couple things I've learned over the years.

First when relocating, schools come first and hockey second. The good news is that the best variety (not always the best AAA team, but large programs with a variety of skill levels) of hockey is generally found where the best schools are in a city because those tend to be higher income areas with more people able to afford hockey.

Now in your case, you also have a girl who if I read you correctly already is playing (love to seem them start young!). This complicates things a little as ultimately you will want to locate near a rink where they host a girls program even if your girl plays boys for another 5 years, if one is available where you are moving.

There are lots of ways to go about developing a young lady as a hockey player and I've been through just about all of them (out of necessity).

If you think your son has the talent and drive to play travel up north, I would also start looking at the various leagues in the region you looking to move to and identify where the top team play out of.

As to how to evaluate rinks and programs, the first thing I would look at strangely enough is what goes on in the off-season. If there are leagues and even more importantly clinics/practices going on through the spring and summer, you probably have a good program. I think most members would agree that skating by far is the most critical skill for player development and off-season clinics show a higher degree of dedication to improving those fundamentals.

I know when I moved to Milwaukee (family trailed me by 3 months), in addition to many hours looking at homes, I went to every rink in the area and inquired about their programs, so I knew who to talk to and how to get my daughter started as soon as she hit town.

With the advancement of technology since then, you can find a lot more about programs (contacts and levels of play) without even being there. It helps to screen things in advance.

I think I've thrown out a few starters. Feel free to reply or PM me if you'd like. There are a couple of us on the board who are familiar and have contacts with many of the top girls programs across most of the country. We can also help you with those age old questions about when to play boys vs when to switch to girls hockey.

Again, welcome aboard.

Do you have any idea where you are going to move to, or does the hockey option(s) dictate that to a degree?

find hockey here map link

In addition to what RWG said, here are some misc thoughts:

Assuming you're looking to make one move, you need to consider what is important to you as a family in terms of education, travel, etc. Also assume you'd like them to be able to play at highest competitive level. Travel hockey is not cheap, especially once a player hits high school/midget age where other factors (social) also come into play.

Some states such as Minnesota, Wisconsin and some in the Northeast (MA for one) have very strong high school programs so there is little travel required to play at the highest level. Playing high school has many advantages, especially surrounding the social life issues (being able to play for school team, have your friends be able to see your games, still take part in other school activities). Most other places require players to play on AAA travel teams, which mean huge sacrifices in terms of social life, friends and family life. The Northeast does also offer prep schools as an option, but they are not cheap (right RWG?).

I'd talk with your players current coach(es) to get an honest appraisal for what their strengths & weaknesses are. They should be able to help you assess where (level) they would see him playing in the future. If there are parents in your current org who have been around hockey for awhile, ask them.

Be aware that many orgs hold their tryouts for the fall teams in the spring, so look for when tryouts are being held.

Normally I wouldn't tell folks to be too concerned at the mite level, but I do know that some areas (Chicago for sure) have limits on the number of times (2 in Chitown) you can change teams, which puts more of a burden on getting your first choice right. So check if such limits are in place in the area you pick.

Thanks for the advice.

Some areas that we are looking are major metropolitan areas such as Denver, Chicago and Boston with my wife hoping for a Denver area move. I have started to look at organizations, but strangly enough because our organization is so small and the transplants that we have are from places like Toronto (systems are little different); and we only played only one year against St. Louis teams (plus they were older than my son and I never got to see the Mites in the league play) I don't really know what I am looking for. Is he a AA Mite because he played up with A1 squirts and held his own in what seemed to be a competitive league???

In the areas that we are looking they do have all girls programs - but I figured that that situation will play itself out. Right now she's OK playing with the boys but we are still feeling out the whole Hockey thing with her. She did express that she wished that there were more girls on the team. She one of 4 girls in the entire organization one of the other girls is on her Mini-Mite team.

With my son it became increasingly more difficult to play with his own age group (there was a skill difference) this year because he wanted to do things that his teammates nor his coaches were ready or willing to let him do. What I was thinking about doing was just making contact with a few organizations in the area that we decided on and having him get on the ice during their summer programs to ask the locals what they thought - but then I don't want to give the impression that I am shopping my son around. Not real sure if their is a "transfer into the area" protocal because when we moved to Arkansas 3 year ago I was just happy they had hockey. I wasn't really all that concerned with the quality at that time. He is going to a camp this summer in Minnesota and the other idea I thought about was to have his camp coaches give me an evaluation. This would be the second year that he would be going to this camp. But again do the Minnesota programs differ from the rest of the country??

I am learning a lot from your ideas so the more the merrier.

I understand completely about feeling lucky just to have hockey. Lotsa places in the south are much like that including Knoxville. And here they don't have teams at multiple levels, so playing up is not unusual.

Not meaning to offend, I wouldn't take playing up in southern hockey as a sign of playing a higher grade of hockey up north. My experience is that there is at least 1 full level grading between southern hockey and northern tier hockey.

Playing up north during the summer would be a good way to decide what level to try your son out at next season. Camps should also be able to give unbiased opinions as well.

And before you came here, I didn't know they had hockey in Fayetteville. I know the local teams here have to haul out to Little Rock to play teams there for league play.

As for your daughter, it sounds like you run the risk of her losing interest in hockey if she is already concerned about the gender of her teammates. Girls play hockey for an entirely different reason than boys and comeraderie with teammates becomes more important earlier (as the girls are more socially wired younger than boys).

Word of warning on girls hockey - it is more important for a girl to be on a team with players of equivalent skill than for boys.

Many girls organizations will try to slot according to age with newcomers. Make sure to get an evaluation skate with players of her skill level, especially with her being young yet experienced.

Girls are more socially flexible about having players play up. Being the best player on the team is not a good thing for development in girls hockey.

If you decide to try one more year of boys hockey, the big city boys teams are more likely to have her play down a grade of hockey than her skills dictate. In competitive big-city hockey, it is very difficult to not take a boy because you took a girl unless that girl is a 1st line player. This may make the social situation better as if she is one of the best players on the team, the boys will gravitate to her more (if that is what keeps her happy) and she will be "one of the guys".

The popular opinion among competitive girl hockey player families is to have them play boys as long as they can because "it is faster". The boys do tend to learn how to skate faster carrying the puck, but the passing and strategy comes faster and earlier to the girls teams as they are more socially connected.

Lots to think about.

RedWingsGuy - Thanks for the insight on the girls and skill evaluation on Southern hockey it helps out.

Our organization lumps our Minis and Mites together for shared ice time regardless of skill level even though these age groups make up half our numbers. So she actually practices and has scrimmages against her older brother. The coaches try to break the kids out by skill level during drills and she seems to enjoy those parts of practice more than the scrimmages when numbers are limited to make up lines. I've also notice the social differnces that you mentioned with her in other activities like soccer and gymnastics. She likes to skate but playing in games and competing against the older and/or more skilled kids is not all that appealing to her. This was her first year and she had fun. So if she can get her own group with our move I think we will find out if hockey is for her.

I will pursue an honest evaluation for my son from his camp coaches. Tryouts will be a new experience for him but I guess you have to start sometime in hockey. As far as offending on the skill evaluation, none taken. If he's been playing B level hockey in which they call A that's what I need to find out so I can make decisions based upon where he's at when we move. There's a team out there for everyone and my kids will enjoy it because it's hockey!

As far as hockey in Fayetteville AR they've been playing here since 1996 when an ice rink got built and donated by the founder of Jones Trucking lines. Our teams have played in the Tulsa OK, Kansas City, and St. Louis (MO Hockey) leagues through the years. We've never played in SAHA or the SYHL because it is a long way to travel for us with some of those teams in Atlanta and even Nashville. But that could be a entirely different forum if you want to talk about how USA hockey divided up the districts. We are actually closer to more teams and organization in the Mountain and Central districts than in the Southeastern. But it is a numbers game and we just don't have that many playing in Arkansas.

Yeah, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Missouri are definitely shorter drives than most of the SAHA cities.

Fortunately for us the Lafayette Louisiana team has chosen to play in the Texhoma league in recent years, as it is 700 miles from Knoxville. Milwaukee (for comparison) is only 640 miles from Knoxville and that is skipping over the entire Mid-Am district.

If you end up in any of the 3 areas you discussed earlier, there are solid girls organizations where your daughter should be able to find players on the same level as her. I can understand her frustration having to play against older and more skilled boys.

In all three areas you describe, there will be plenty of hockey, evaluations and tryouts to attend. This will determine where your 98 plays. By your screen name you are aware hockey is now moving to birth year teams and he will end up with 98s in all those areas. Travel or House will be determined by the local tryouts.

Worry about your house, schools, taxes and nearby zoning and the hockey will take care of itself.